i am new to th forum

[summerland]

to Magick

[summerland]

Post one more time.... ...... raising the post count?

[akru]

NAP is a nice system for new folks. Remember a few things though:

*Magick takes practice and dedication.

*Magick may be capable of miracles but the more realistic your desire, the better chance you'll have of effecting an outcome that is desireable.

*Magick has many systems, not every system works the same, some systems don't work for some people. Some people also have more natural abilities than others.

*Magick can be stopped dead in it's tracks by disbelief. You must believe, just as in the mundane world belief is everything... if you don't believe in yourself and believe in what you are doing you will sabotage yourself.

thanks for your words bro.

[Provenant]

*Magick can be stopped dead in it's tracks by disbelief. You must believe, just as in the mundane world belief is everything... if you don't believe in yourself and believe in what you are doing you will sabotage yourself.

Nothing like being bitten in the ass by something you don't believe in. The whole "Belief is everything" theory of magick is part of the school of thought that magick is all psychological. There are many entities that simply don't give a sh*t whether you believe in them or not. Evocation isn't like "The Secret". Magick isn't wishcraft.

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist" Charles Baudelaire

[ryanmercer]

*Magick can be stopped dead in it's tracks by disbelief. You must believe, just as in the mundane world belief is everything... if you don't believe in yourself and believe in what you are doing you will sabotage yourself.

Nothing like being bitten in the ass by something you don't believe in. The whole "Belief is everything" theory of magick is part of the school of thought that magick is all psychological. There are many entities that simply don't give a sh*t whether you believe in them or not. Evocation isn't like "The Secret". Magick isn't wishcraft.

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist" Charles Baudelaire

True, however a valid case can be made that if the whole time you are thinking "I don't know why I'm doing this, it isn't going to help me" then guess what the spirits and forces involved are probably going to go "yeah, why should I waste my time". You'll find perfect examples of such scattered throughout this forum from numerous persons.

You are discounting belief, which to a new person isn't probably the best thing to be doing. Belief is a very powerful tool, just look at the placebo effect... perfect example of belief being a powerful force in and of itself... so is disbelieve or negative thinking, just look at hypochondriacs... tell them they look sick and it negatively effects them because they believe there must be something wrong with themselves so they start manifesting symptoms.

Evocation isn't wishcraft, but if you have a negative attitude to it's effectiveness or disbelief while performing work... you probably aren't going to get results, at least desireable ones. I never said magick is 100% psychological, but magick does require a mastery of your mind and self which belief is a significant portion of.

I'm unaware of a single tradition that doesn't require some element of belief in what you are doing.

[Provenant]

Ryan,

I'm not going to hijack this thread any further than this ...

You don't seem to have much actual field experience, yet you are continually hopping into threads giving armchair advice. I imagine you've read a bit, and think you understand. I get your eagerness to be part of things, but instead of giving awkward advice to new folks, maybe hang back, or start a few threads with your own work.

Belief is a very fuzzy concept. In ESP tests, yes, a confirmed non-believer can queer the whole thing. However, even there, non-believers tend to exhibit "negative psi" where their results in psychic tests tend to be so much less than probable chance that the results still tend to show psychic functioning, just in the wrong direction.

The common idea of "belief" really has very little to do with magick. In my own experience, about 30 years ago, it was the shattering of my "belief" paradigm that showed me there was something to all of this.

The idea that "belief" is the power behind magick is a solipsistic fallacy. In fact, believing "really hard" is often the impediment to successful conjuring. It's also not really very mentally healthy to focus on belief. Talking yourself into things can lead to obsession.

That's one of the reasons to test what you call up. To make sure you're not fooling yourself. Too much "belief" is imho worse than being a non believer. Magick isn't religion.

To believe or not believe is not really the question.

[summerland]

Ryan,

I'm not going to hijack this thread any further than this ...

You don't seem to have much actual field experience, yet you are continually hopping into threads giving armchair advice. I imagine you've read a bit, and think you understand. I get your eagerness to be part of things, but instead of giving awkward advice to new folks, maybe hang back, or start a few threads with your own work.

Belief is a very fuzzy concept. In ESP tests, yes, a confirmed non-believer can queer the whole thing. However, even there, non-believers tend to exhibit "negative psi" where their results in psychic tests tend to be so much less than probable chance that the results still tend to show psychic functioning, just in the wrong direction.

The common idea of "belief" really has very little to do with magick. In my own experience, about 30 years ago, it was the shattering of my "belief" paradigm that showed me there was something to all of this.

The idea that "belief" is the power behind magick is a solipsistic fallacy. In fact, believing "really hard" is often the impediment to successful conjuring. It's also not really very mentally healthy to focus on belief. Talking yourself into things can lead to obsession.

That's one of the reasons to test what you call up. To make sure you're not fooling yourself. Too much "belief" is imho worse than being a non believer. Magick isn't religion.

To believe or not believe is not really the question.

[ryanmercer]

To believe or not believe is not really the question.

I disagree, telling this new person that they don't need to believe in their work at all, is just flat out bad advice. That's encouraging fantasy. Apparnetly it seems YOU do not have a lot of 'field experience' as you put it.

Have you ever made or worked with an egregore (or otherwise named similar entity)? Please, tell me how belief isn't important and doesn't matter. Egregores are in MOST magick traditions, they are purely creations of belief and they can be considerable forces.

Indian & Tibetan Buddhism - Tulpa
Various traditions & orders (Masonic, Rosicrucian, neo-Druid) - Egregore
Finiish folkore - Etiäinen
Judaism - Golem
East slavic traditions sometimes see these as them - Kolobok
Etc etc

So please, continue with how belief doesn't matter a damn bit.

[Provenant]

Have you ever made or worked with an egregore (or otherwise named similar entity)? Please, tell me how belief isn't important and doesn't matter. Egregores are in MOST magick traditions, they are purely creations of belief and they can be considerable forces.

Indian & Tibetan Buddhism - Tulpa
Various traditions & orders (Masonic, Rosicrucian, neo-Druid) - Egregore
Finiish folkore - Etiäinen
Judaism - Golem
East slavic traditions sometimes see these as them - Kolobok
Etc etc

So please, continue with how belief doesn't matter a damn bit.

Your post is showing how little experience you have Ryan. This is not the place to go round and round.

I'd be happy to take this up with you elsewhere ... shall we adjourn to the Asshat?

http://www.studioarcanis.com/viewtopic ... at#p102149

[ryanmercer]

Have you ever made or worked with an egregore (or otherwise named similar entity)? Please, tell me how belief isn't important and doesn't matter. Egregores are in MOST magick traditions, they are purely creations of belief and they can be considerable forces.

Indian & Tibetan Buddhism - Tulpa
Various traditions & orders (Masonic, Rosicrucian, neo-Druid) - Egregore
Finiish folkore - Etiäinen
Judaism - Golem
East slavic traditions sometimes see these as them - Kolobok
Etc etc

So please, continue with how belief doesn't matter a damn bit.

Your post is showing how little experience you have Ryan. This is not the place to go round and round.

I'd be happy to take this up with you elsewhere ... shall we adjourn to the Asshat?

http://www.studioarcanis.com/viewtopic ... at#p102149

I've said there is all to say, by saying belief matters 0% you've invalidated most of the traditions discussed on this forum and many others. You conveniently side-stepped thoughtforms (creations of pure belief, effectively used by untold numbers of people throughout the span of man's existence). My advice to the OP remains, never doubt yourself.