PRAISE TO ELUBATEL

[splfr]

Well, once again I was in dire straits due to some nasty attack from someone, things were getting more and more difficult, so I decided to call Elubatel again.

For three days ending on the new moon, I did the defensive armor ritual+exorcism+protection from evil+occult judo(I love this one) and the chant to bring success, the day immediately after the first ritual the tide changed in my favor and in the two following days everything was fixed and better than before the problems.

So, I can only say THANKS ELUBATEL, ANGEL OF OMNIPOTENCE.

SPL

[axismundi]

I'm glad you dealt with the problem.

These occasional attacks can become tiresome. Presumably when humans are involved they must achieve success a lot of the time and only occasionaly get knocked back by their target.

The human capacity for negative and petty malice never ceases to amaze me.

[splfr]

Hi Axismundi,

Thanks for your words. You are right, people don't learn and many times live a petty life messing with other peoples lives, sometimes you want to knock them out of this world until you realize that maybe you'll spend most of your time getting rid of people, so sometimes is better to use other means.

SPL

[axismundi]

What you are saying there to relates to the more spiritual side of magick I feel.

If the magickian is just results oriented and purely egocentric then it is possible that they could spend pretty much the whole of their life avenging past insults and injurys, possibly even fomenting more such to be avenged in the future. With a more spiritual perspective a broader view on life can be enjoyed. From such a perspective the majority of the petty malice from people can be overlooked/forgiven/ignored, be it occult or mundane oriented. From such a perspective only the more significant malificium needs to be addressed. I personaly judge if the malice is worthy of my attention by the following criteria:

1 - Level of malice of intent of perpetrator.

2 - Harm or likely harm to myself and innocent others (I tend to be less tolerant of malice towards innocents then malice to myself).

I would be interested in your take on this.

[splfr]

Yes, I think so too, my approach is more related to the spiritual side, on the other hand to spend most of the time attacking others is the main reason why many magickians never get their head out of the water, wasting their time in such small egocentric wars.

OK, my attention is not dragged by the "Level of malice of intent of perpetrator" because, for me and my resources, is hard to determine that and it becomes a kind subjective assessment, so I don't take this into account.

Well, basically my only concern is about my family, any harm towards me that causes an actual harm to my family is enough for me to take a defensive action.

So, my take is to try to nullify the action against me/my family more than to try to cause a direct harm to the attacker, in the meantime I don't care about what happen to that person when the attack is nullified and the harm is returned; nevertheless I've been tempted many times to actually destroy the wrongdoer, but I guess where would that take me in the long run? Would I become a careless person that kills or causes harm just out of rage? Is that the real me? So long I've been able to solve the issues without having to resort to that measure, at the end for me is an issue of my right to self defense, if my life or the life of my loved ones depends on it and there's no other choice I won't hesitate to excercise that option.

Btw, I don't care about karma.

Regards,

SPL

[axismundi]

Most proficient magickians I have met have a pragmatism with regards to ethics that I feel you are exhibiting here.

I would suggest that it is not so much an issue of karma but that to much vengeance and retaliation can brutalise you and in effect make the magickian pretty much the same as the low brow knuckle dragging petty sorcerery which started it. You only have to look at stuff like the Leyden papyrus to see that these guys are like cockroaches and have been around always.

I think it was Nietzche who wrote that when fighting the creatures of the abyss be carefull that when after a time when you look into the abyss, the abyss does not also look into you.

[Gordon Finn]

Hey, does anyone know what is on the 'cover' of the leyden papyrus? I only have it in pdf form, but I don't know the language of the text block.

[splfr]

I'm only a pragmatic guy, not yet a proficient magickians!

You are right, and very wise words and advice, that's precisely what I'm trying to avoid...that's why I prefer to protect and defend myself rather than attack or return the strikes.

But again, I won't judge anyone who takes a further step because I'll do the same under the proper circumstances, and at the end I think that should be approached by me in a professional way, so to speak, the same as a cop that have to kill in the line of duty...to do it because it must be done, that simple and with a clean and clear consciousness...too cynic? I don't think so, just realistic(and pragmatic).

And yes, we can actually become the abyss after a while.

Btw, what's that Leyden papyrus, I have heard about it but can't recall what's it about.

Take care.

SPL

P.S.: Found the Leyden papirus! Btw, there's a thread about ethics and magick, should take a look at it, interesting viewpoints and mine were presented there.