luck

[Menxeperset]

I disagree. Some of the best magicians have been deeply religious. It added to their practice, didn't take away from it. And vice versa, I would think. A magician of the Middle Ages wouldn't have made a big deal of seperating the two, except in speech so as to avoid execution or arrest. He would have seen it as using a certain set of techniques in order to get in contact with some of the beings that his religion talks about.
And if we read the grimoires, the authors themselves show a moralistic idea of good and bad at times.
In modern times it might be vogue to say "there is no good and bad" but that's dumb. People might disagree as what constitutes good and bad action,but that doesn't mean that we should shout down those who have the balls to have beliefs and talk about them.
I mean c'mon, this is like throwing a fit everytime somebody brings up karma. People today get so caught up in political correctness and the worship of themselves that they forget that people do not make the rules. Gravity, inertia, genetic predisposition to avoid certain behaviors, and many other things were all around way before humans.

define good. define bad. no wait, please don't, it's a random and futile exercise.

Agreed. Although sometimes it may be unavoidable, one always appreciates it when posts try to avoid moving from the mystical/magical into the devotional/religious.

No, no, I agree with what you're saying and, nominally, with the OP. What I disagree with is, on this forum, moving the magical into the religious when it is not absolutely necessary. I am a big proponent of freedom of belief. I am also very fond of this being a forum dedicated to magical technique. Sometimes, given that such techniques are intrinsically connected with religious tradition, it's unavoidable. But it rubs me the wrong way when people begin to claim that their religion is the source of their magic and that is why they are oh-so-much-more-powerful.

In defense of Grab's original comment, for the purposes of evocation (and most other magical methodologies), the definition of good, bad, and god may remain subjective. And there will still be enough common ground for us to talk about discarnate entities, approaches, and even where these things connect to magico-religious paradigms.

Just keep your god zipped up so I don't have to whip mine out, too, and then we wind up having a holy pissing contest.

Mxs

[splfr]

I agree with Mxs and Grab..., for me magick is magick per se, no religion behind it, not need of devotion of whatever, period. If someone likes to link religion and magick for whatever the reason, then good for him/her, but for me is not a must and magick always work disregarding religious beliefs.

Back to the luck topic, I think that all or at least many of the rituals will unlock a sort of lucky gate, or to put it the other way around: whenever I do magick for "X" goal I see many random things happenning, I see different things falling into place and accomodating themselves in order to materialize my goal, this can be called luck no doubt. So, the luck stream is always there when we do magick: for instance, things I didn't consider, or even never imagined appear in the process and help in the materialization of the goal. So, I know that there will always be luck on my way when I do magick, because I can't consider or handle or manipulate the almost infinite random factors that affect my equation, I just know those factors will accomodate according to my goal.

SPL

[Grab]

splfr, excellent answer, that is very similar to my experience as well.

When I notice these things happening, and think about it like "aha this must be THAT working kicking in.." I sometimes get a feeling that such thoughts might hinder or block further results in that direction. Other times I don't think about it until afterwards and then it seems slightly better. Do you also have that experience? And if so, did you learn to work around it?

[hitman]

There's no need for this kind of rudeness. I don't think I was belligerent at all in my response. Try not to say things which will only lead to arguments.

Just keep your god zipped up so I don't have to whip mine out, too, and then we wind up having a holy pissing contest.

Mxs

[Menxeperset]

There's no need for this kind of rudeness. I don't think I was belligerent at all in my response. Try not to say thinks will only lead to arguments.

Just keep your god zipped up so I don't have to whip mine out, too, and then we wind up having a holy pissing contest.

Mxs

It was meant in a lighthearted tone. I believe I was agreeing with you, and I intended no disrespect.

[splfr]

splfr, excellent answer, that is very similar to my experience as well.

When I notice these things happening, and think about it like "aha this must be THAT working kicking in.." I sometimes get a feeling that such thoughts might hinder or block further results in that direction. Other times I don't think about it until afterwards and then it seems slightly better. Do you also have that experience? And if so, did you learn to work around it?

Hi Grab,

Thanks for your kind words. I think we all go through different stages in our magickal life, we move from one stage to another, and we don’t realize that until a while. In the past I had that same reaction: "OMG this and that his happening towards the achievement of X", then sometimes that hindered or to some degree sabotaged the final results. How I overcame that? Inadvertently, day by day, after finishing a magickal operation, I started to have a feeling of security on I was doing, until it was almost always that after the operation I was completely sure of its success, I got that gut feeling of realization or success (I don’t know if other people have the same feeling in the solar plexus) during the operation itself, that I walked out of my temple completely sure of the outcome and since that time I always have that feeling, that certainty during and after the ritual, so I don’t think more about the ritual or about what I wanted, then when the outcome starts to unfold in the desired direction I don’t have the same reaction that I used to have in the past, I just realize that things are happening and will keep happening as I want. So, now I see that as a something natural, as a natural and expected consequence not as something extraordinary. I was amazed the first time I reacted in that way, it was something important and almost impossible for me to achieve, when I got that I was amazed of how cold I reacted, no emotion at all, almost detached, I saw that as something natural, normal, and it seems that from that time on my instinct reaction has been that. And now, I realize that maybe that means that I have internalized my magick to the point of feeling it as a second nature on me, so for me, I’m not making any wonder, I’m just doing something that is common, or usual, as blending a couple of ingredients in a pan and cooking them for a set period of time, as a cook can do every day(so I’m not even a chef!) to obtain a desired meal.

Hope this helps to clarify the point, from the perspective of my personal experience.

SPL

[Slater]

I think that angels scrutinize our attitude if we are good or bad , the more we are good in heart NAP will works tremendously so the angels willingly to assist us in our endeavours. Here the tip try NAP starts on Friday then complete consecutive 49 days.
The primary Keys in order the NAP works its power, are the Holy Names of God. Please have great respect and devotion with it.

I kinda see this as right on topic (even if as someone above says: it's not absolutely necessary) in the sense that he's saying the Judeo-Christian context/background/understanding of the NAP entities and God-names are important to him and he's embraced them in a religious sense. That the experience is magnified and better because of it, in his experience of working the NAP.

It's fashionable to knock those with religious beliefs but in this case, it's surely an insight from someone who has crossed a line others may not have and from that perspective we can maybe learn something...even if it doesn't resonate within us?
I found it interesting anyway especially as the concept of LUCK being discussed here is in some ways in this discussion about being "in favor" of said beings in a sense.

I think the point about intentions/big picture stuff, resonates with many who work with angelics. Often they deliver whats best for you or what you asked for in a way that leads you to the result so that you grow in the process as opposed to just dumping it at your feet. Am I wrong?

[hitman]

Nope, that sounds about right. Even though sometimes it might seem like they just kicked you in balls instead.