Elubatel: Command or Be Grateful?

[O Delano]

Not to go off-topic, but I must not be very good at searching the forums...can someone provide links to the Solar banishing and the KoF banishing? Please? With a cherry on top?

[Clayfield]

Not to go off-topic, but I must not be very good at searching the forums...can someone provide links to the Solar banishing and the KoF banishing? Please? With a cherry on top?

Thanks to TIm for pointing me in this direction, and Noone for confirmation. Here you go O Delano:

http://www.studioarcanis.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=51

http://www.studioarcanis.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=859

If you get stuck searching from within the forum, you can sometimes have more luck using Google, adding "studioarcanis" as a keyword.

We may be some way off topic, but perhaps not, as I still feel I'm working out how to approach Elubatel and NAP. I hope it's useful to other people as well.

[Wanderer]

Thanks for the links .

Clayfield: You may find the banishings mentioned in the links above to be useful, but that really seems to depend on what resonates with you. I tend to mix a smattering of Norse magical practice in with my own variants of the common ritual magic. It's an odd mix, but the outline of what I perform is as follows:

1) Qabalistic Cross
2) Hammer rite (click here for a explanation)
3) UPG-based invoking ritual of the Pentagram
4) Invocation of omnipotence
5) Ritual
6) Banishing
7) Write down any notes

Feel free to steal the above method or play with it as you see fit. I do not view magick as a rigid practice, and oft experiment, if only for the sake of seeing what sort of results I can get.

[Madmartigen]

Interesting discussion. While at it, I'd like to address two issues I've had as well - perhaps this might help somebody.

But, today, I found out that the success I requested has not come to pass. This was one of those plain and simple success or failure scenarios. It's not like I asked for $10,000 and only received $10. I asked for a particular success, which was within my sphere of influence and only required a slight magical nudge - or so I thought.

Every handful of times I was in a similar situation, I had exactly the same result. Whenever I approached Elubatel with the "this is just a piece of cake - averything is almost there, just push it slightly" - nothing happened, or even I had the situation turned to worse. I guess you just don't use a jet plane to go to a pub by the corner. I learned very well to use talismans or candles when stuff is easy - they tend to work excellently. Don't overpush simple things.

Either way, I did the Chant with the intent of having better luck and fortune in general. The next 2 days were absolute hell. I'm not kidding. I could not do ANYTHING right. Absolutely NOTHING at my job went right. A severe depression I've been suffering through flared up really badly for those two days, leaving me an emotional wreck. I couldn't even have fun doing something as simple as playing a damn videogame. It sucked, and I couldn't find any relief from it. After those two days things went back to normal which, while not that great, was much desired over those two days.

This I have also seen quite a few times. In my opinion it is a sign that your Chant is working succesfully. Simply put, every action has a reaction, and if things tend to get better around you, something - be it your unconsious, be it energy patterns around you, be it whatever - tends to resist. I learned that you just have to be patient and continue with the chant, also banishing the negatives. Losing trust in your Magic or even blaming Elubatel for bad circumstances is a very bad idea - this is not his doing.

As an example - couple of weeks ago I had very similar situation during the Chant of Success period. 3 days were absolutely hell for me, where everything tended to go wrong or fall apart. In the end of these 3 days (just if a conclusion), a lady just drove clearly in my car when on the parking (and I love my car and care for it).

A few days later, however, when I was continuing with the Chant, everything cleaned up. The matters that I was struggling appeared meaningless, and insurance paid me almost twice what was needed for the car repairs.

NAP is pretty powerful and Elubatel is a mighty and very special spirit, but care must always be taken, and sometimes other means are needed as well - I mean it is not the only magic that is out there, so choose your tools wisely.

Best

M.

[summerland]

I usually do respectful/polite request. And follow up after manifestation with gratitude that takes the form of candles and incense or the same offerings that I used to make the request with. For example, St. Expedite gets asked with candles, incense, and pound cake. After he delivers, he gets thanked with candles, incense, and pound cake.

Sometimes I just give them offerings for no reason - like I would do with a friend. I buy a gift just because I think they would like it. Just sort of touching base and letting them know I appreciate them and didn't forget the favour.

Neo

neo have you ever had dealings with st germain?

[X-GUY]

Interesting discussion. While at it, I'd like to address two issues I've had as well - perhaps this might help somebody.

But, today, I found out that the success I requested has not come to pass. This was one of those plain and simple success or failure scenarios. It's not like I asked for $10,000 and only received $10. I asked for a particular success, which was within my sphere of influence and only required a slight magical nudge - or so I thought.

Every handful of times I was in a similar situation, I had exactly the same result. Whenever I approached Elubatel with the "this is just a piece of cake - averything is almost there, just push it slightly" - nothing happened, or even I had the situation turned to worse. I guess you just don't use a jet plane to go to a pub by the corner. I learned very well to use talismans or candles when stuff is easy - they tend to work excellently. Don't overpush simple things.

Either way, I did the Chant with the intent of having better luck and fortune in general. The next 2 days were absolute hell. I'm not kidding. I could not do ANYTHING right. Absolutely NOTHING at my job went right. A severe depression I've been suffering through flared up really badly for those two days, leaving me an emotional wreck. I couldn't even have fun doing something as simple as playing a damn videogame. It sucked, and I couldn't find any relief from it. After those two days things went back to normal which, while not that great, was much desired over those two days.

This I have also seen quite a few times. In my opinion it is a sign that your Chant is working succesfully. Simply put, every action has a reaction, and if things tend to get better around you, something - be it your unconsious, be it energy patterns around you, be it whatever - tends to resist. I learned that you just have to be patient and continue with the chant, also banishing the negatives. Losing trust in your Magic or even blaming Elubatel for bad circumstances is a very bad idea - this is not his doing.

As an example - couple of weeks ago I had very similar situation during the Chant of Success period. 3 days were absolutely hell for me, where everything tended to go wrong or fall apart. In the end of these 3 days (just if a conclusion), a lady just drove clearly in my car when on the parking (and I love my car and care for it).

A few days later, however, when I was continuing with the Chant, everything cleaned up. The matters that I was struggling appeared meaningless, and insurance paid me almost twice what was needed for the car repairs.

NAP is pretty powerful and Elubatel is a mighty and very special spirit, but care must always be taken, and sometimes other means are needed as well - I mean it is not the only magic that is out there, so choose your tools wisely.

Best

M.

This is very observant. Great analysis.

[NoxLumina]

A thought I've had recently is that angelic beings simply do not think like us. They are not us!

Strangely enough, this comes to me both from work with computers and association with people on the autistic spectrum. If people don't even all parse language the same way, who's to say spirits do?

When you "command" Elubatel as per the NAP book, you're not commanding him the way you'd command your dog to sit up, roll over, play dead.

You're "commanding" him the way that you type a command into your computer's command prompt. It simply can't work with input or process data in any other way, you have to speak its language.

Under such conditions - to speak precisely and specifically, to "command" as such, *is* part of how you show respect. My UPG regarding angels is that you are dealing with beings who are very, very different from us and that there is a lot of information that's easily lost in the filters on *both* sides.

You're not wasting his time with unclear requests or gobbledigook and you're speaking in the way he can best understand and work with.

So the answer is, do you command angels? Yes and no. It depends upon your definition of "command".

[toothache]

A thought I've had recently is that angelic beings simply do not think like us. They are not us!

Strangely enough, this comes to me both from work with computers and association with people on the autistic spectrum. If people don't even all parse language the same way, who's to say spirits do?

When you "command" Elubatel as per the NAP book, you're not commanding him the way you'd command your dog to sit up, roll over, play dead.

You're "commanding" him the way that you type a command into your computer's command prompt. It simply can't work with input or process data in any other way, you have to speak its language.

Under such conditions - to speak precisely and specifically, to "command" as such, *is* part of how you show respect. My UPG regarding angels is that you are dealing with beings who are very, very different from us and that there is a lot of information that's easily lost in the filters on *both* sides.

You're not wasting his time with unclear requests or gobbledigook and you're speaking in the way he can best understand and work with.

So the answer is, do you command angels? Yes and no. It depends upon your definition of "command".

well put

[Wanderer]

Correct. Spirits are only like us in that they have their own cultures, views, values, friends, enemies, and so forths. Like humans or any other creature, they have their habits, likes, and dislikes. That's the beginning and end of the blanket statement one can make about them, aside from the note that they are definitely different from us.

They have their own belief systems, tribes, heirarchies, and so forth. Not all spirits answer to a deity or a person higher up the chain of command, and when they don't, you can either win them over or coerce them through pressing pressure points. No, not all of them are intelligent enough to reason with, or really even understand human logic. Some of them don't really give a flying crap that we're human, or that we walk on two legs, have jobs, etc. There are certain spirits who even go so far as to be unable to understand the concept of "work" or a "job".

The Spirit World is varied and myriad in the forms its denizens take. Some of these things look like deep sea fish, whereas others are totally alien to us. Here's a hint: if it doesn't know how to look like you or doesn't want to look like you, chances are that it probably doesn't understand you. If it does understand you and still doesn't take a shape you are comfortable with, its trying to mess with you. If it doesn't grok you and doesn't look like you, you're going to have to try to understand it.

Such is the case with angelic spirits too. Angelic, in our sort of colloquial usage of the day, basically refers to spirits of the air. Beginning and end of story, if you're not trying to get too technical. Realize that their realms are different than ours.

In NAP, we are taking a Abrahamic view of spiritual work. The entities therein are thought to answer to a specific deity or deific triad, so the words and names have some power and drive over them. Commanding them is part of how its done, so if you think of Elubatel as a force of nature, in commanding the energy to do something, you're directing focus one way, and the energy follows.

PS: Great post Nox.

[summerland]

A thought I've had recently is that angelic beings simply do not think like us. They are not us!

Strangely enough, this comes to me both from work with computers and association with people on the autistic spectrum. If people don't even all parse language the same way, who's to say spirits do?

When you "command" Elubatel as per the NAP book, you're not commanding him the way you'd command your dog to sit up, roll over, play dead.

You're "commanding" him the way that you type a command into your computer's command prompt. It simply can't work with input or process data in any other way, you have to speak its language.

Under such conditions - to speak precisely and specifically, to "command" as such, *is* part of how you show respect. My UPG regarding angels is that you are dealing with beings who are very, very different from us and that there is a lot of information that's easily lost in the filters on *both* sides.

You're not wasting his time with unclear requests or gobbledigook and you're speaking in the way he can best understand and work with.

So the answer is, do you command angels? Yes and no. It depends upon your definition of "command".

This has been discussed in this topic....viewtopic.php?f=28&t=5421&start=10. Some of us experimented on this and actually command was better. Either way it is the relationship you have with Elubatel that matters (Not talking about the kind like " Hey bro lets have a beer" either......Just him knowing you! And are you up for it!