Odd Insights into Hekate

Syncretic Egyptian / Graeco-Roman magic from the collection of texts known as the Papyri Graecae Magicae.
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Leonardo_Drakon
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Re: Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#11 » Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:57 pm

talerman wrote:Hecate has been connected to the Moon, or more precisely to the Waning Moon since the ancient time.

Even though your insights might be great for you and can further contribute to our understanding of Hecate,
let her be where she is and where she is supposed to be - the Moon.


As Pablo stated the important thing is how a deity appears to you when working with that deity.

Regarding the moon and Hekate, like it or not, this is definitely the modern understanding. The early Greek texts do not present this version of the goddess at all, in her earliest descriptions she is goddess of liminality and of the three worlds (Celestial, Terrestrial, and Chthonic).

As an individual deity, her only lunar associations are calendric in terms of when certain rituals dedicated to here should be performed. For example, the first of the month or the end of the month. These are periods of no moon, darkness, purely stellar night... Since the ancient greek months were correlated to lunar phases if this was grounds to identify a deity as lunar, every Greek deity would be lunar because of specific feast days and so forth. It is like us saying today that XX Saint is Solar because his feast day is measured according to our gregorian solar calendar.

Hekate only becomes directly connected to the moon much much later in Graeco-Roman times and even then it is because of joint worship alongside Artemis, Selene and the Thracian Bendis. In fact, the earliest descriptions of her depict a fiery deity that is best equated with the sun (if any planet at all).

The later Greeks and the Romans (from which we get the “Hecate” spelling) began to propagate the idea of her being a “moon goddess”. It is in the Roman times that we see the first statue of her with the “lunar horns.” Then fast forward to modernity and to Robert Graves who identifies all major goddess’ with the Moon, and the Moon-Hekate link becomes accepted as a canon in modern practices.

I am not saying that the moon correspondence is wrong, only that your assessment of it being the “where she is supposed to be” and “original” correspondence is incorrect. She wears many masks only one of which - a later one, is lunar. Take Hekate in the Chaldean context; to describe her in relation to any planet would be incorrect since in this body of work she is the Cosmic Soul that transcends all planetary spheres.
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talerman
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Re: Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#12 » Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:53 pm

Leonardo, your post about Hekate is informative. Thanks.
I just don't think that Hekate is a goddess of everything.
With her three faces, she has been associated with hundreds of different thinks.
And now when you associated her with Mercury and Venus, it seemed to me too much.
She seems like taking sits of other goddesses and gods.
I really don't think she needs to be associated with any planets, but still if one does it, it should be the Moon, even if that it is a modern interpretation (but isn't Greek-Roman time old enough?)

And I would like to underline again, that I like your posts, thanks for telling your experience, you've made good points, but I just kindly disagree with Hecate- Venus-Mercury.

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Re: Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#13 » Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:42 pm

talerman wrote:And I would like to underline again, that I like your posts, thanks for telling your experience, you've made good points, but I just kindly disagree with Hecate- Venus-Mercury.


Talerman, I value your thoughts very much and appreciate you taking the time to express them.

This is a forum after all , we are here to discuss and debate! Sometimes we will agree and sometimes we will disagree and somewhere in between there is a kernel of knowledge for us take home.
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Re: Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#14 » Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:17 pm

I absolutely agree with you Leonardo!

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talerman
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Re: Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#15 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:01 am

Leonardo, I see you as an expert of Hecate,

and that's why I ask you to read what I have written below and correct what you think is wrong:

Hecate - old interpretation:

In the earliest descriptions she is goddess of the three worlds (Celestial, Terrestrial and Chthonic). Hecate, originally Thracian, was worshiped as the goddess of witches, crossroads, nights and spirits. The old Greek found her appearance terrifying; some refused to call her by name out of fear, so they call her "Unnamed". Her other names were: Mighty on the Sky, Earth and Ocean, Mother of Wizards, The One who can change Currents, Protector of Three Roads and the Dark One. In fact, she is one of the few Titans who helped Zeus in his final battles for the celestial throne. She also helped Demeter to find her daughter Persephone lightning up her way with a torch. So, her symbol is the torch. The old Greeks built Hecate's statues on many crossroads and the Greek magicians used to meet there to honor her and give her offerings. They also placed Hecate's statues with a torch or a sword in her hand to be protected from evil spirits. Hyppolytus writes the following conjuration to Hecate in his work "Philosophumena" from the 3rd century: “Come, you, hellish, earthly and heavenly Hecate, the goddess of wide roads and crossroads, who wanders at night with a torch in your hand. You, the enemy of the day and the friend of lovers nights, you who enjoys when the wolves howl, who walks around the graves...have a look at our offering.” Hecate rides on her dog. Only dogs can see her clearly. When they howl at night, Hecate might be somewhere near. If the magician wants to evoke a dead person, he may ask Hecate for help. He may burn mixed powder of absinthe and sandalwood above the grave of departed soul he would like to have communication with. He may draw a triangle upon the ground and evoke the dead person into it in the name of Hecate: "With the power of the goddess Hecate, I evoke you, the spirit of the dead. Come and listen to me, oh ghost, wake up from you rest and manifest yourself in a human form”!


Modern interpretations of Hecate

In modern interpretation Selena passes the Moon to Hecate when it is waning. She is seen as a third aspect of the Moon Goddess together with Diana and Selena. Yet, she herself also has three different aspects as: the goddess of fertility and abundance; the goddess of the Moon, magic and night; and the goddess of spirits and shadows. Some witches use Hecate's wheel as Hecate's symbol. This wheel represents Hecate in her three aspects. It has a form of a labyrinth as Hecate is also a protector of the crossroads. In that function, she looks at three directions. The modern witches say that Hecate is a high priestess who found her inner knowledge and is ready to teach others. They also say that Hecate represents the dark within us and a part of our psych which we don't accept. Her powers are appalling and she definitely doesn't belong to tender goddesses - her rage is swift and violent against the ones who dare to bring evil to her devotees. Modern worshipers evoke Hecate usually at the Waning Moon in order to banish evil spirits, remove bad habits or talk to the dead. She is also evoked by some magicians to bring justice. She is usually associated to: star sapphire, moon stone, pearls, larch, cypress, poppy, oak, camphor, bows, aloes dogs, horses and black cats. Her favorite colors are silver and black. Aliester Crowley claims that no real witches' ritual can be preformed without the magical formula ALIM. He says that this is the magical formula for Yesod and Hecate.

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Re: Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#16 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:52 pm

talerman wrote:Leonardo, I see you as an expert of Hecate,

and that's why I ask you to read what I have written below and correct what you think is wrong:



I’m honored that you see me as such, but I assure you I am far from it. I am merely a devotee and student of the goddess.



Hecate - old interpretation:

In the earliest descriptions she is goddess of the three worlds (Celestial, Terrestrial and Chthonic). Hecate, originally Thracian, was worshiped as the goddess of witches, crossroads, nights and spirits.


Her origin is debatable, she was very popular in Thrace, but her oldest cult center is in southwestern Turkey (Caria).

The thing that fascinates me about Hekate is that she enters Greek mythology as a Titan (old god) who is readily adopted and further empowered by the Olympians. She is the only deity with such lineage. It also speaks to her extremely ancient worship that clearly predates the deities we today associate with Greek mythology.

She seems to have three major phases in antiquity.

The first is Carian phase as a “Great Goddess” of Asia Minor where she was worshipped as queen of all of nature celestial, terrestrial, and chthonic realms. During this period her attributes are solar, yet there is evidence that she was part of a triad that placed her as both mother and consort to the solar and lunar male gods. Goddess of fertility, life, and death she was once the head Goddess of an extremely ancient religion. She was also worshipped in her liminal aspects as that which transcends boundaries and guards gates, both metaphorically and literally (this was the main aspect worshipped in Thrace, where she was later paired with Hermes as the male counterpart to her liminality).

The second is from Hellenistic times onwards, and is where she gains the traits that we recognize today and what you describe bellow:

The old Greek found her appearance terrifying; some refused to call her by name out of fear, so they call her "Unnamed". Her other names were: Mighty on the Sky, Earth and Ocean, Mother of Wizards, The One who can change Currents, Protector of Three Roads and the Dark One. In fact, she is one of the few Titans who helped Zeus in his final battles for the celestial throne. She also helped Demeter to find her daughter Persephone lightning up her way with a torch. So, her symbol is the torch. The old Greeks built Hecate's statues on many crossroads and the Greek magicians used to meet there to honor her and give her offerings. They also placed Hecate's statues with a torch or a sword in her hand to be protected from evil spirits. Hyppolytus writes the following conjuration to Hecate in his work "Philosophumena" from the 3rd century: “Come, you, hellish, earthly and heavenly Hecate, the goddess of wide roads and crossroads, who wanders at night with a torch in your hand. You, the enemy of the day and the friend of lovers nights, you who enjoys when the wolves howl, who walks around the graves...have a look at our offering.” Hecate rides on her dog. Only dogs can see her clearly. When they howl at night, Hecate might be somewhere near. If the magician wants to evoke a dead person, he may ask Hecate for help. He may burn mixed powder of absinthe and sandalwood above the grave of departed soul he would like to have communication with. He may draw a triangle upon the ground and evoke the dead person into it in the name of Hecate: "With the power of the goddess Hecate, I evoke you, the spirit of the dead. Come and listen to me, oh ghost, wake up from you rest and manifest yourself in a human form”!


In the late Hellenic period she starts to take on the lunar characteristics of Selene, Artemis and other goddess with whom she becomes associated. In this period we start to see magical incantations that consider her one with Selene and pair her as the counterpart to Helios (PGM has quite a few examples which are roughly dated to 2nd-3rd C. CE). It is also during this period that she is first depicted as the three-faced goddess, and even four-faced in some texts (aligning to the four elements).

Her third phase in antiquity is totally different. This is what is preserved in the Chaldean Oracles (~ 2nd C. CE). Here Hekate becomes the deification of the Cosmic Soul, her liminality is preserved as that transcendent force that can navigate the Noetic and Hyletic realms. The cosmology here is rather neoplatonic and gnostic and there is a triad of ‘creator gods'. The triad consists of:

Had - “First Father”/First Intellect
Hekate - Cosmic Soul/ Mediating power of the divine Feminine
Hadad - “Second Father”/The Demiurge

In the Chaldean Oracles, Hekate is elevated to an entirely different role than what most practitioners associate with her. Here, she is perhaps best equated to the gnostic Sophia and the deified force of the Divine Feminine. Some may argue that this is in fact closer to her original Great Goddess status in Asia Minor; and indeed the term “Chaldean” was intended to reflect a philosophy that was more Babylonian and eastern in tradition.


In modern interpretation Selena passes the Moon to Hecate when it is waning. She is seen as a third aspect of the Moon Goddess together with Diana and Selena.


The triple aspect as a lunar thing is a completely modern neo-pagan interpretation. The moon was never considered of triple aspects prior to the 19th Century, it was always worshipped in its 4 aspects (new, waxing, full, waning). The triple goddess though popularize as a lunar concept was originally a concept that reflected the three shamanic ‘realms’ (Celestial, Terrestrial, Chthonic), and many will argue that this on a planetary scale was reflected by Venus who has three distinct phases (Morning Star, Disappearance, Evening Star). Furthermore, the Wiccan triad of Maiden, Mother and Crone in which Hekate is attributed to the crone is quite odd considering Hekate in human form was always described as a maiden, ageless and beautiful (despite sometimes being frightening).

Yet, she herself also has three different aspects as: the goddess of fertility and abundance; the goddess of the Moon, magic and night; and the goddess of spirits and shadows. Some witches use Hecate's wheel as Hecate's symbol. This wheel represents Hecate in her three aspects. It has a form of a labyrinth as Hecate is also a protector of the crossroads. In that function, she looks at three directions. The modern witches say that Hecate is a high priestess who found her inner knowledge and is ready to teach others. They also say that Hecate represents the dark within us and a part of our psych which we don't accept. Her powers are appalling and she definitely doesn't belong to tender goddesses - her rage is swift and violent against the ones who dare to bring evil to her devotees. Modern worshipers evoke Hecate usually at the Waning Moon in order to banish evil spirits, remove bad habits or talk to the dead. She is also evoked by some magicians to bring justice. She is usually associated to: star sapphire, moon stone, pearls, larch, cypress, poppy, oak, camphor, bows, aloes dogs, horses and black cats. Her favorite colors are silver and black. Aliester Crowley claims that no real witches' ritual can be preformed without the magical formula ALIM. He says that this is the magical formula for Yesod and Hecate.


Hekate’s wheel (Iynx) is an interesting topic on its own. It may have its origins with the Chaldean period, given that it shares its name with a class of ‘angelic’ beings (Iynx) in the cosmology of the Chaldean oracles. It is also interesting to note that it may have been a spinning musical instrument that produced specific vibrations used to work magic. Check out this link: http://www.philhine.org.uk/writings/rit_jinx.html

When we get into modern interpretations of the goddess, it is really a personal quest. I found that many of the correspondences can be validated by looking at the ancient records, but some are definitely new and come from people’s personal experience with the goddess. (Hekate: Keys to Crossroads is an interesting read on this topic since it is a compilation of modern experiences with the goddess)

I highly suggest the following books if you want to really delve into the historical evidence of the ancient worship of Hekate:

Hekate Liminal Rites by Sorita d’Este - good basic overview
Hekate Soteira by Sarah Johnston - amazingly well researched, it is her dissertation primary focused on the Chaldean Oracles.
The Goddess Hekate edited by Stephen Ronan - another academic book full of well researched information.
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nipha333
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Re: Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#17 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:50 pm

Leonardo_Drakon wrote:I generally don’t like to work with the celestial aspects of Hekate whether they be her possible solar origins, or her later lunar correspondence. In my practice she is primarily a liminal goddess of mostly chthonic nature.


I do totally agree with this statement... But I also refer to Hekate in terms of planetary terminology. For example I call her the Saturnian Venus, and categorize most of her aspects as Saturnian. Though this is more in the sense of explanation of hernature, than an actual celestial attribution. As an operative alchemist i have come to look at things in terms of elemental and planetary energies. So i might describe something as the water of Venus, but it is already understood that if the thing in question is chthonic I am not attaching celestial provenance to it, merely using a convenient terminology that expresses the nature of things.
For me, I see it from the perspective that we are on Earth, and we die, therefore EVERYTHING we do happens on and in earth, and relates to death. I take goeteia from the nekromantic perspective and I feel that even when referring to planets we are never truly talking about planets, but rather how they maniffest in/on earth. Therefore i would actually go so far as to say all magick is earthly/chthonic.
'Goetic Magic … if properly understood would regenerate Western magic and underline its immense cultural significance, on a level equal to any spiritual tradition in the world.' -JSK


primalsage
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Re: Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#18 » Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:01 am

Any views on Mark Alan Smith's system of Hekate as Goddess of the Tree of Light and Death? Also the Mother of Lucifer and Belial.

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Pablo
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Re: Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#19 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:47 am

primalsage wrote:Any views on Mark Alan Smith's system of Hekate as Goddess of the Tree of Light and Death? Also the Mother of Lucifer and Belial.


My Views on Mark Alan Smiths writing are far from polite and would probably get me thrown of this forum. I thik it is far better to go back to ancient sources.
The vulgar is at everyone's command. Eirenaeus Philalethes - The marrow of Alchemy


primalsage
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Re: Odd Insights into Hekate

Post#20 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:07 am

Pablo wrote:
primalsage wrote:Any views on Mark Alan Smith's system of Hekate as Goddess of the Tree of Light and Death? Also the Mother of Lucifer and Belial.


My Views on Mark Alan Smiths writing are far from polite and would probably get me thrown of this forum. I thik it is far better to go back to ancient sources.

LOL please do share some I really did like to know and he is a little popular in the occult scene so. I have heard some people swear on results from his system though.. :roll:

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