More than one

Syncretic Egyptian / Graeco-Roman magic from the collection of texts known as the Papyri Graecae Magicae.

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Magick La Croix
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More than one

Post#1 » Sat May 30, 2020 9:12 pm

As far as having more than one supernatural assistant, do you all think its possible? Suppose you do the rite of the headless one from The Seven Faces of Darkness and then the Operation of Pnouthis the Sacred Scribe from Hermetic Magic is what I am speaking about.

Let's discuss....

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corvidus
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Re: More than one

Post#2 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:34 pm

I’m unfamiliar with the ‘Operation of Pnouthis the Sacred Scribe from Hermetic Magic‘. So I wont say anything about it.

What I will say, however, is that in my younger days of following two or three systems at a time, I easily would become distracted by one or the other and not make progress in the other or one.

If you know what I mean ;)
We really must free ourselves from the seduction of words


Topic author
Magick La Croix
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Posts: 39

Re: More than one

Post#3 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:55 pm

corvidus wrote:I’m unfamiliar with the ‘Operation of Pnouthis the Sacred Scribe from Hermetic Magic‘. So I wont say anything about it.

What I will say, however, is that in my younger days of following two or three systems at a time, I easily would become distracted by one or the other and not make progress in the other or one.

If you know what I mean ;)



I ABSOLUTELY know what you mean on that one....agreed....

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Provenant
Dominus
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Re: More than one

Post#4 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:25 pm

Are you working through the PGM, or following Flowers' book "Abaris"?

As far as multiple familiars, sure. Like having more than one dog. I guess it depends on whether you're giving over your own guidance to some "HGA" or being the master and having the servitors fetch.

Which angle are you looking for?
Cheers,

Prov

=============
Ars non Fortuna


Topic author
Magick La Croix
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Re: More than one

Post#5 » Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:15 pm

Provenant wrote:Are you working through the PGM, or following Flowers' book "Abaris"?

As far as multiple familiars, sure. Like having more than one dog. I guess it depends on whether you're giving over your own guidance to some "HGA" or being the master and having the servitors fetch.

Which angle are you looking for?


Normally the PGM but having been looking at Flowers' book and wanting to work out of it. I am with you on that as far as having more than one dog but the angle is the one you stated.....being the master and having the servitors fetch. I have been looking at his "controlling the shadow" rite but again, the pronounciation of the words is my biggest obstacle.

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Berenike
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Re: More than one

Post#6 » Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:27 am

I can't, and won't, comment on the adaptations of the rituals as they are presented in those two books, but I am increasingly convinced that the Higher Guardian Angel perspective on PGM rites seeking a supernatural assistant—and especially the Headless One—is a slightly clumsy retrofit. That's not to say that the rituals can't be adapted for your personal genius, your native daemon, your HGA, or whatever it is you seek communion with. But I don't believe that is what these rituals are, so I see no reason to assume there's exclusivity there.

It's also my personal experience, the experience of others I've talked to, and well attested in anthropological records, that there's no real exclusivity in the spirit world when it comes to "supernatural assistants" in general. So why would I assume there's such exclusivity here, in the PGM rituals, unless otherwise stated?


Topic author
Magick La Croix
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Re: More than one

Post#7 » Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:20 pm

Berenike wrote:I can't, and won't, comment on the adaptations of the rituals as they are presented in those two books, but I am increasingly convinced that the Higher Guardian Angel perspective on PGM rites seeking a supernatural assistant—and especially the Headless One—is a slightly clumsy retrofit. That's not to say that the rituals can't be adapted for your personal genius, your native daemon, your HGA, or whatever it is you seek communion with. But I don't believe that is what these rituals are, so I see no reason to assume there's exclusivity there.

It's also my personal experience, the experience of others I've talked to, and well attested in anthropological records, that there's no real exclusivity in the spirit world when it comes to "supernatural assistants" in general. So why would I assume there's such exclusivity here, in the PGM rituals, unless otherwise stated?


Ok then....what exactly do you believe these rituals are then? Genuinely curious here....

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Berenike
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Re: More than one

Post#8 » Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:52 am

:?:

I'm sorry if it was unclear—I believe the rites seeking a supernatural assistant are rites seeking a supernatural assistant, precisely as advertised.

My point was never that I don't think these are for getting assistants, I simply stated that I see no reason to believe this has anything to do with some kind of exclusive higher guardian angel or personal daimon. That is because I do not really see that in the text, and the terminology used for these supernatural assistants in the Preisendanz (Greek) edition is the same as when you enspirit an image to rape a woman—which has a distinctly different odor than the light frankincense notes of illumination and gnosis through your connection to the Nous and whatnot.

And if these rites are not intended to bring down a highly personalised, given at birth, spirit, then there is no reason to believe the relationship is by its very nature exclusive… since the rest of the PGM does not really indicate exclusive relationships between the magician and the spirits, and occult and spiritual practitioners through the ages around the world have mostly not really had exclusive relationships with a single spirit.

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